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28 August 2009

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Hi Stuart

On the question of whether you could get continuation training in France with a UK-issued PPL, I have consulted Mike Grierson who is something of a ‘guru’ in these matters.

Mike recently completed 12 years of service with the UK Civil Aviation Authority where his responsibilities included the inspection and approval of professional-pilot FTO’s (Flying Training Organisations).

As I understand it, your post-PPL situation is as follows:

Your 2-yearly check rides and revalidations can be done by any JAA-licensed Instructor and Examiner, irrespective of the country in which their own licences were issued. The SRG11129 record form must, however, be signed by the Examiner completing the revalidation and should be sent to PLD (Personnel Licensing Department) at Gatwick

Similarly, medical examinations may be conducted by doctors licensed in any JAA country so long as they meet JAA standards and this is clearly stated on the certificate.

Additional ratings, such the Night Qualification, may be carried out by any JAA-registered organisations and a Multi-Engine (MEP) Class Rating at an FTO approved for the particular training.

However, the appropriate UK application forms (obtainable for the CAA web site) must be used and the CAA may require documentary evidence of the FTO’s JAA approval.

As a first step, I think that you would enjoy doing the Night Qualification, which only took me a couple of nights at Southend, some years ago (when it was called a 'Night Rating').

Flying on a clear night is absolutely brilliant.

Basically, you do a lot of dual circuits using the PAPI (Precision Approach Path Indicator) and one or two where they turn it off and you judge the approach from the angle of the runway lights (at least 3 hours)―there is also a dual cross-country flight (at least 1 hour).

You then do 5 solo take-offs and ‘full stop‘ landings―touch and go landings weren’t allowed so I had to trundle all around the taxiway and the 5 circuits took me nearly two hours what with queuing and holding for commercial traffic (less of a problem in France, I think).

Actually, taxying at night takes quite a lot of concentration and I had a tendency to go too fast.

Mike has advised that, if you have a long runway, you can do a stop-go as long as the aircraft comes to rest before commencing the next night take-off.

Overall training must be at least 5 hours.

You might, as some point, consider the UK IMC rating which is not valid outside of the UK but the training will provide useful skills to get you out of trouble if you run into ‘marginal’ weather―you definitely need a UK-licensed instructor/FTO for that one.

Hopefully, some other readers will come up with suggestions for suitable French training organisations.

1.I will need a Certificate of Test for my PPL revalidation in January. Is there a UK examiner in France that could do this for me?
2. Are there any medical examiners in France that will issue a Class 2 cert. under JAR FCL3 rules? I have gone to UK or Switzerland in the past. The french cert I have has no mention of JAR.

Julian

The matter of Class 2 medicals is covered in an earlier blog article at http://www.francoflyers.org/2008/06/french-jaa-clas.html

They didn't used to be available in France but they are now.

As mentioned in the comment immediately before your own, you don't actually need a UK Examiner for your revalidation so there is plenty of choice all over France.

The following item, on the UK Civil Aviation Authority website, has been drawn to my attention:
------------------------------------------
Mutual Recognition - 7th August 2009

Mutual recognition of medical certificates from other States

At this time, Lithuanian Class 1 and 2 medical certificates and French Class 2 medical certificates cannot be used to validate a UK issued National or JAR pilot's licence.
-------------------------------------------

This shows how quickly things can change and is a good example of the regulatory 'woolliness' which led me to set up Francoflyers in the first place.

I will look into this and report back.

Julian,
My local GP here in France issued me with a class 2, would be worth mentioning that you need the JAR one, as my doctor hadn't finished his old box of non JAR certificates and was still issuing non JAR ones without realizing he had the new ones in a box under the desk !!!

Quote (Les): Similarly, medical examinations may be conducted by doctors licensed in any JAA country so long as they meet JAA standards and this is clearly stated on the certificate.

and (Stuart): My local GP here in France issued me with a class 2

Gents, be aware that the CAA no longer accepts ANY medicals issued by French doctors - either for an initial PPL or if you need your med renewal. UK approved quacks have been informed by the CAA that they cannot do a re-verification of a French issued Class 2 medical.

I suggest a trip to the UK, Switzerland or Italy if you need one!

The plot thickens:

I just spoke to the Civil Aviation Authority Medical Department who have posted the (August 7th) notice referred to earlier because the French Authorities have recently notified them that they no longer issue JAA Class 2 medical certificates.

This would appear to undermine the French doctors who do seem to be issuing them.

The CAA couldn't really comment on the position of PPL students in France who are working towards a UK-issued licence (on French aircraft) and require a valid medical certificate for solo flight.

What we could really do with is a good French speaker to contact the DGAC Medical Department and establish the precise position (on both issues).

Is there anybody out there who has a recently-issued UK PPL, obtained with a French certificate.

The CAA don't object to French JAA Class 2 certificates as such except that the French appear to be saying that they don't issue them.

It seems to me that there is a 'communication' issue here, which may well be resolved with a bit of teamwork.


Les,
might be worth contacting Stine who was a the subject of the article 'flying should be fun' on the blog as she passed recently and did her medical in France ?
I will drop her an email.

Dear All
I was wondering if anyone has heard any updates on the French class 2 medical saga, I managed to pass my PPL last week in Limoges and am going to have to go the UK for a medical, as I live in France, before I can send the paperwork off to get my license issued ?
regards
Stuart

I have just spoken with the CAA medical department, who have been really helpful in trying to get to the bottom of this, and the lady has given ,me the email address and the telephone number of the Doctor in Paris who is at the root of this decision Dr Rene Germa.
I am going to write to him and will let you know any results I have.
Stuart

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